Русские унтер офицеры. Commissar Miniatures 28 мм.
В понедельник от Commissar Miniatures поступила в продажу новинка - русские унтер-офицеры. А я во вторник по почте, получил подарок от Николая Бородина, за что ему огромная благодарность! Коля выслал мне его как сюрприз. И вот распечатав дрожащими руками вожделенный пакет, я увидел этих красавцев. Решил бросить свой покрасочный проект по артиллерии и заняться этими фигурами. Красил для себя (достаточно посредственно), для своих будущих полков. Вечер слесарки, купорошения, просушки и грунтовки и два вечера покраски. Вот собственно результат:
Фигурки Коммиссаров хорошо подходят под фигурки Пэрри, туда они у меня и пойдут служить, когда я буду формировать 11-ю пехотную дивизию.
Спасибо Commissar Miniatures за очередных русских воинов!
Заказать фигурки можно здесь - Toy Armies.
Great models and useful supplement to Perry!
ОтветитьУдалить
УдалитьI agree with you Mark, they diversify the infantry
Русский паровой каток! :))) Темп у тебя фантастический
ОтветитьУдалитьА всё, темп снизится. Я уже из отпуска вышел и теперь только вечерами крашу.
УдалитьХороший подарок.Очень замечательно иметь таких друзей:)
ОтветитьУдалитьСогласен!
УдалитьБойцы класс! Теперь им добавить рядовых и офицеров...
ОтветитьУдалитьОбязательно, тем более, что резерв для этого есть.
УдалитьDear Russian friends: Please check the contemporary Napoleonic era sources regarding that orange stripe on the plume! As a matter of fact, this NCO device is first seen on the uniform plates by Chifflard (1818). In my opinion, Viskovatov wrongly attributed it to earlier times and till our times his error was repeated even by renowned uniformologists such as Leonov, Popov and Kibovsky. Look at Kiel, not even he has orange stripes for NCOs! I challenge you to prove me wrong - or finally admit that the "experts", starting with Viskovatov, were mistaken! Thank you!
ОтветитьУдалить
УдалитьDear Friend! I only study uniforms from available sources. Such historians as Leonov and Popov, studied in the archives many documents and orders in the archives, including things made for the sample and preserved to this day. I have no reason not to trust these historians. I can’t prove anything. I am not a historian. I play games and paint the soldiers)
You have no reason not to trust these historians? Good for you, good for them. Just try and check the available contemporary sources yourself. Dare to challenge what so-called historians tell you. If they are true historians, they will honestly answer you and even admit mistakes. So many people call themselves "historians". Unfortunately (for the serious few), the art of asking the right questions - and answering them unbiasedly - has vanished to nowhere in our digitalized era ...
ОтветитьУдалитьYeah, the three artists in the drawings Dating back to 1815, no one has an orange stripe. Doubts of course now there is. Need to information inspect. Agreed. How can I contact you? FB?
УдалитьI felt it was my responsibility to bring this misconception regarding the orange stripe to your attention. Nothing can be gained from contacting me on this matter. Now, it's up to you, to all interested Russians, to seriously discuss the matter among yourselves and then let "the rest of the world" know to what conclusions you have come. Will be very much appreciated. Thank you!
ОтветитьУдалитьhttps://humus.livejournal.com/4533086.html - There is an orange stripe, but it is artillery (horse). Dating back to 1807.
УдалитьThank you very much. Yes, this is a convincing contemporary picture of an NCO orange stripe, indeed. But how to explain that apparently no other contemporary pictures show such stripes, neither with NCOs, nor with bandsmen (who also ranked as NCOs)? I've already mentioned Kiel. Equally, I can't recognize an orange stripe here:
ОтветитьУдалитьhttps://runivers.ru/gal/gallery-all.php?SECTION_ID=7072&ELEMENT_ID=420779
or here (6th picture from the top):
http://indbooks.in/mirror7.ru/?p=155939
or here:
https://repository.library.brown.edu/studio/item/bdr:240888/
https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/510d47e3-d217-a3d9-e040-e00a18064a99
Is it possible that Count Arakcheev (who was inspector of the Artillery in 1807) was the first to introduce orange stripes for NCOs (within the artillery) but was able to impose them - gradually, till 1818 - on all army NCOs only after the Napoleonic Wars?
Thank you friend! I will endure this discussion with experts.
УдалитьВ гвардии султаны для унтер-офицеров были введены черные "с белой и оранжевой полосами" ценой в 30 коп. 10 апреля 1804 г. У армейских гренадеров по образцу гвардии ввели указом от 4 февраля 1805 г.
УдалитьThere is a representation of an infantry NCO's plume with orange stripe which is slightly earlier than Chifflard but, unfortunately, it's still post-Napoleonic. It's a portrait of a Life Guard Izmailovsky portupey-praporshchik, dated September 1816 (also in Leonov, Popov,Kibovsky, p.474, upper right):
Удалитьhttp://impereur.blogspot.com/2015/08/1797-1882.html
Note how flimsy the stripe is, contrary to what we see with Chifflard, or even more with Viskovatov (there is another anonymous series of uniform plates dated to the mid-1820s which shows the same flimsy stripes). As a matter of fact, the stripe is hardly noticeable, I'd say it's quite possible that it can't be seen from a distance. Perhaps this is the reason why contemporary, especially foreign, artists did not show it. On the other hand, Kiel was an official uniform painter, and still you need a lot of imagination, to say the least, to see an orange stripe on his NCOs' and bandsmen's plumes...
As @яр mentioned, the stripe appears to have been decreed already in 1804 for the guard and in 1805 for army grenadiers. But was this decree fully implemented during the Napoleonic wars? Was it applied to other branches as well? We've seen it with NCOs of the horse artillery in the 1807 uniform work for Arakcheev, but do these plates show the actual appearance of the uniforms or are they rather showing the uniforms as Arakcheev would have liked to see them? I think that this matter really needs to be explored more thoroughly.
УдалитьI will write an article with normal drawings and Kiel as well. I will give even the number of the archive document, where the Sultan is described.
I tried and found a more lightened photo of Ivan Vasil'yevich Luchaninov's 1812 painting representing an NCO of army grenadiers and yes, I now think there could be an orange stripe indeed (10th picture from top):
Удалитьhttp://forum.fox-notes.ru/index.php?topic=2679.0
So, regarding the Napoleonic era, there seems to be pictorial evidence for the orange stripe for horse artillery NCOs (1807), army grenadier NCOs (1812), and - if the above mentioned 1816 portrait is accepted as evidence for the Napoleonic era - guard infantry NCO's. Not bad but, hopefully, more contemporary iconographic evidence will come up.
Figures as always painted with high detail. Thank you for your discusion. Always something new about the period!
УдалитьAnd now I found one of the rare coloured Kiel plates which clearly show the orange stripe. It represents the drum Major of the Life Guard Finlandsky Regiment in 1817:
Удалитьhttp://www.imha.ru/uploads/posts/2018-09/1538230467_tamburmazhor-leyb-gvardii-finlyandskogo-polka.jpg
As with the 1816 NCO Life Guard Izmailovsky portrait, the stripe is very thin, more a line than a stripe, and again the orange colour is remarkably faint.
To compare with the bandsman of the Life Guard Preobrazhensky Regiment (on the left) in 1816, also from Kiel, from the same series:
http://www.imha.ru/uploads/posts/2017-01/1484310451_barabanschik-i-muzykant-leyb-gvardii-preobrazhenskogo-polka.jpg
No stripe or line whatsoever visible but otherwise the rank insignia of an NCO.
So, at present, I'd say that NCOs and drum majors (regimental drummers), as well as battalion drummers, had plumes with a narrow stripe of light orange, while bandsmen had none?
Is it possible that the stripe was also a mark of distinction between senior (ста́рший у́нтер-офице́р) and junior (младший унтер-офицер) NCO, the former with, the latter without stripe, and would bandsmen therefore have ranked as junior NCOs?
УдалитьI wrote an article - https://fmlschwarzenberg.blogspot.com/2019/09/orange-stripe-on-sultan-of-russian-ncos.html
"Amicus Plato, sed magis arnica Veritas." Ужасные фигурки в плане скульптуринга. Крась, не крась все равно краше не станут.
ОтветитьУдалитьКонечно это лично мое мнение.
А мне очень понравились.
УдалитьЭто восхитительно! Я думал только русские могут так, по-простецки, вломиться в междусобойчик и начать втираться свои навязчивые идеи совершенно незнакомым людям 8)))
ОтветитьУдалитьВот из-за этой петрушки с репейками и ментиками я спокоен к наполеонике, что и удерживало меня от подписки на этот блог. С другой стороны, не могу позволить пропустить еще один такой пир духа, а ваша трудоспособность это вообще отдельная тема для восторгов, хоть и направлена она, на мой взгляд, совершенно не в то русло 8Р.
В общем, оставив лишние рассуждения, взвесив все pro et contra, я реашил стать читателем этого блога 8)
Спасибо большое!
Удалить